lmao did the gop change or just get more conservative after two Obama administrations?

A vote for Biden is a signal to the Democratic party that we like what they’re doing. There is no incentive for Democrats to change if we keep voting them in out of fear. Right now they are just incentived to be slightly better than the proud White Nationalist dude, which is an extremely low bar.

Right, so you’re willing to throw Palestinians under the bus. The strategic action I am talking about is refusing to vote for candidates who will fund the genocide.

Minorities are going through hell under Biden! He is not an ally. I don’t see how Democrats would try to appeal to Trump voters if they can demonstrably see that a HUGE chunk of voters need a more left candidate. A vote for Biden is a vote for no change whatsoever. It gives Biden and the Democratic party no incentive to change.

The Republican voters are still very much obsessed with Trump. We deserve a candidate that people actually want to support.

It’s more like drinking expired milk and both have different quantities of cyanide, and both milks are funding genocide. You’re dying either way. Strategic action could shift things, blindly voting for Democrats no matter what they do gives them no incentive to change their behavior.

It’s not 2016 anymore. Check out the primary results, 10-20% of people did not vote for Biden as part of a deliberate movement.

Biden is definitely more palatable, but at the end of the day, either way we will have a president happy to fund genocide. Either way we waste billions on military, have a huge incarcerated prison population, deport immigrants, could go on. Biden was vice president during Obama’s drone strikes.

You’re not getting it, it doesn’t matter who wins the next election because Trump and Biden are so very similar. So many of the things people are saying Trump will do is already happening under the Biden administration. If the Democrats saw that they lost the election bc 10-20% of voters issued a protest or third party vote, which actually happened during the primaries, it would make a huge impact.

If they keep moving right, eventually they WILL lose Democrats. I don’t really imagine mainstream Democrats suddenly changing their views on abortion, for example. So there will have to be a party that caters towards that HUGE demographic, whether it’s the Dems or another party that fills in.

I don’t see how affirming the actions of the current administration does anything but to entrench Dems in their belief that they can get away with anything and liberals would still vote them in. It just emboldens them to be more conservative.

To get out of the weird negativity you brought into the discussion -

Biden and Trump are much closer to each other politically than the Democrats would have us believe. Voting for third party could make the Democrats run more left-leaning candidates. If we keep voting for Democrats no matter what they do, they have no motivation to change! Why would Biden suddenly stop FUNDING Israel after we vote him in again? What is the motivation? But if Democrats lose or nearly lose the election due to losing votes, that’s amazing motivation to change.

You’re being intentionally obtuse right now lol this isn’t the own you think it is. You just seem a bit slow.

Exactly, why vote for him? Vote for a third party candidate and stop voting in fascists.

Yes, at the pace we are going under Biden. Under Biden.

If the Democrats go full Trump eventually they would lose the moderate liberals and a third party could step in. I don’t see that as the likelier option.

Something like 10-20% of voters in the primary did protest votes. It’s a huge chunk of people.

And it’s also people they currently see as their base, the Democrats are trying to appeal to the conservatives because they believe (correctly) that they can do just about anything and people will continue to vote for them.

I don’t think Judith Butler is opposed to policies that demonstrably improve gender equality such as abortion. Correct me if I’m wrong here?? I think the playing with gender is just part of it. And I feel like it has a real impact, idk I know a lot of nonbinary and gender fluid people and they are not, on the whole, hierarchy-obssessed people.

The biological conditions that lead to patriarchy can totally be leveled out somewhat, but it’s hard to rule out the reality of how testosterone impacts physical strength, and the impact of pregnancy. It’s not really about stereotypes it’s about sex differences.

I think playing with gender isn’t just for the “oppressed” to have fun under a difficulty hierarchy. If more dudes were wearing skirts and participating in feminine activities, it would be harder for them to be violent against women. Think about all the incels who worship masculinity and never talk to girls and are just scary as hell. And if the incels wanted to fetishize this masculinity worship, it wouldn’t be as serious you know? Like they are serious about their violence as is, but if they successfully recontextualized it as a fantasy that they partake in during a specific context with consenting people, that might be better?

… yes??? yess!!!

And when we had slavery?? (which we continue to have now in our prisons)

And we do torture,

and we assassinate black people when they organize,

we have a huge military worship culture,

and we have so many territories and military bases abroad and have funded so many horrible dictators

How are you not seeing it? Honestly?

You act like I’ve never heard any of these arguments before 🙄 when this lesser of two evils, game theory argument is the Democrats’ party line to avoid accountability. Keep voting for us!! We won’t change at all, in fact, we’ll get more conservative, but keep it up! Thanks for the votes!

Why would Biden be conviced to stop funding genocide after we elect him? After he has definitively learned that genocide is not a bridge too far for people to vote Democrat? It’s illogical. You’re just like oh hopes and prayers Biden will change his mind 🙏 YOU’RE the one being illogical.

Threatening re-election is the only power we have to convince high level Democrats to change. I’m suggesting something that has actual power.

We don’t have to limit our political strategy to a single election cycle. If Trump wins, it’s the Democrats fault for not adhering to basic moral values. When Democrats realize they will actually lose elections, they will put up different candidates in the next elections and they will support better policies.

oh I started to write a thoughtful answer then saw you blocked me.

You are the one who is hopelessly deluded about the gravity of our situation. Under Biden, we are already living under a totalitarian, racist, transphobic government. A civil war is a hypothetical, the genocide is actually actively happening right now with funding that Biden approved. Many Democrats have expressed enthusiastic support for Israel’s violence.

I think whenever you have “groups” of people, if not deliberately prevented, a hierarchy will develop. I can’t think of any situation where this isn’t true to some extent. Even blondes have more fun.

And with gender, the gender for whom most people are able to be pregnant and therefore have the capacity to be basically incapacitated by pregnancy and childcare for years, while also being physically weaker and shorter, is going to be the less dominant gender. I don’t see that going away.

Yes, trans men can get pregnant, but most men are cis men and I don’t see that changing. Trans women (and many cis women) might not be able to get pregnant, but they still are subjected to the social stigmas related to being a woman all the same.

So by acknowledging the tendency and weakening it’s power by playing into fetishization, you don’t have to work against people’s tendencies to otherize. And it’s not just fetishization, it’s also camp and playfulness as well. Fetishization could also be described as a playful preference, that in the instance of gender is sexualized because sex/sexuality/gender are so inter-related.

I think you’re thinking fatalistically when we have the capacity to try to change things.

1. a civil war sounds overall good? realistically, I don’t think there will be a peaceful dissolution to the United States (has this ever historically happened?), and if some states could escape and self-govern, the people in those states might be better off. a constitutional crisis is long overdue. also justifying a vote for the candidate who is funding genocide by saying you want to avoid civil war is kinda hypocritical right? war for thee but not for me?

2. SOME people are buying time under Biden, other people in many states are not doing well at all!

3. Trump can’t dissolve NATO by himself https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/13/politics/congress-trump-nato-what-matters/index.html

the most he can do is defund the military, which would weaken the United States ability to enact NATO obligations. And defunding the military seems good?? If he wants to do that for that weird roundabout reason.

also, the United States is only one of many countries in NATO. the states of Taiwan and Ukraine wouldn’t instantly crumble. and you’re so concerned about the right to statehood, but you’re willing to throw Palestinians under the bus?

4. the idea of the third party vote isn’t that Trump would care, it’s that Democrats would run more leftist candidates in the future and start trying to appease leftists instead of moving more and more to the right.