• Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org
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    1 month ago

    I know so many people who adamantly stand by their use of it. I used to say it, too, but all it took was one person to point out to me that it was hurtful and I apologised and stopped no questions asked. I don’t get why it’s so hard to just have a little empathy.

    • Anvil Lavigne@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      i used to think it was okay for me to say as i’m disabled. what i noticed, though, is that my doing so 1) communicated to my abled peers that it’s okay for them to say as well & 2) made me appear as a pick-me; i was perceived as “one of the good ones.”

      the r-slur has been causing a very visceral reaction in me for years & i will continue to report each & every instance of it.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        That’s the problem I have when people of that slur use it. And worse, they act like it’s not a big deal. There’s offensive words I can use because of my skin tone that would absolutely get any non-colored person choked out.

        But you nailed it. If I brush it off like it doesnt offend/isn’t a disgusting word, then I am giving permission to others that it’s okay to say.

        • Norah - She/They@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 month ago

          It’s the same these days with the f-slur and cishet folks getting ostracised for using it, at least where I live. I agree, I’ll happily call myself one but never the r-slur. It just gives people a free pass.

      • die444die@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I have a question about for you about this if you don’t mind. In certain mechanical situations the word is used to describe a delay added (for example in a car engine you may use this word to describe a certain timing adjustment).

        Does the word in a context like that still cause that visceral reaction or does the context make it different - is it only when used to describe people that it hits that way?

        I’m only asking this because it popped into my head the other day when I was reading my service book on my engine and ran across it.

        It’s kinda similar to how people commonly used a shortened form of ‘transmission’ in the automotive industry but it became a slur for trans people - I feel like I haven’t heard that one in a while so I’m guessing it’s fallen out of use, but I was just always curious if the taint of people bullying with that word crossed over into other contexts.

        • Anvil Lavigne@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 month ago

          there’s the initial sting, yeah, but it’ll subside once my brain remembers the context. when used in a bigoted way, the feeling sticks for a while.

          • die444die@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            That’s along the lines of what I expected. I’m always just curious how our brains work, so thank you.

            I always try to find an alternative to the word regardless of the context because it’s not like it’s hard to do and I’d rather not cause that reaction in anyone if possible.

            It sucks that we keep doing the same thing over and over as a society as this is not the first word ruined by being used in the exact same manner as a way to bully and harass and make fun of people.

            You’d think some day we’d learn that we can actually teach people not to be shitty and we don’t have to accept this behavior from people at all.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      1 month ago

      based and i adore people who are like you

      it does tend to be a good litmus test for disempathy, sadly. obviously there are outliers, but if one can’t take a tiny correction to like 0.01% of their vocabulary, color me not surprised when that same person starts talking about the immigrant problem or women’s place in the home or something :(

      • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        My guy still thinks bigotry is caused by lack of empathy. It’s actually selective empathy that helps encourage bigots.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Selective presence of empathy is exactly equivalent to selective lack of empathy, which is a type of lack of empathy.

          • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            Except that literally everyone who has empathy does selective empathy, even if not intentionally. You also can’t really form an in-group and out-group mindset without empathy. Like if there was no empathy at all bigotry wouldn’t be nearly as big.

    • FinishingDutch@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Here’s the way I see it: to most people, that word is not linked to a disability. It’s just a word to describe bewilderment or exasperation at someone, something, some situation. It’s not intended to be hurtful.

      I have a disability as well. I see about twenty percent of what normal people see. I’m pretty much blind without my contacts or glasses. I don’t get offended when someone uses terms like ‘short-sighted’ or when someone says ‘are you blind?’ to someone else. We also use seeing metaphors quite a lot if you pay attention to them. I’m not offended by it, because I know the language is not intended to offend me.

      I’ve also worked with people who had actual mental disabilities. And trust me, most of them know damn well when something’s intended as an insult or when it’s just metaphorical use.

      • Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 month ago

        I hope that most people can look past it in the same way but unfortunately intent doesn’t change how hurtful some things can be. And it’s still language that serves to otherise a group of people. Just like the N and F words which have both declined heavily in use (at least since I’ve been alive).

        The way I look at it is that my want to use certain words does not outweigh other people’s feelings. English is full of fun and interesting things to say, we can get a bit more creative than just using slurs.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I wish there was a category of words that conveyed the same strength as slurs, but weren’t offensive. Swears are the closest. Unfortunately I think any word that can be freely used like that will be used in exaggeration so much that it will be watered down.

  • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 month ago

    Blahaj.zone admin here. Let me make this simple and clear. I don’t care what specific word you use, if you are using intellectual disability or neurodivergence as an insult, you’re going to get moderated.

  • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 month ago

    If I call you “stupid,” “moronic,” or “intellectually bankrupt” you know what I’m saying. Getting offended by the specific wording of an ad hominem, while giving synonymous terms a pass, is truly some of the finest hair-splitting I have ever had the displeasure of seeing.

    • Glide@lemmy.ca
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      Imagine calling the difference between people who do stupid things and people who are born with diagnosed mental illnesses “splitting hairs”.

      It’s very, very simple. In one case, you are attacking someone who is completely in control of their mental facilities. In the other, you are attacking people who are literally incapable of defending themselves, from birth. They are not synonymous. If you think that level of punching down is okay, then be as indignant and self-righteous about it as you want, but you deserve to be told.

      • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        Intellectually-disabled people were originally defined with words such as “morons” or “imbeciles”, which then became commonly used insults.

        I don’t see anyone getting a ban anywhere for calling someone a “moron,” for any other reason than making an ad hominem. The thought is almost laughable.

        • Glide@lemmy.ca
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          So, we’re just going to pretend that language doesn’t evolve because it justifies your bias?

          People didn’t put their foot down when the meaning of those words began to shift, and now they mean something entirely different. In our more socially and culturally aware culture, we as a people understand nuance and are generally educated enough to see what’s happening. We have by and large decided that it’s a bad thing to continue normalizing attacking the mentally disabled.

          Fuck off with your pseudo-intellectual defense of toxic, dehumanizing culture. Words mean things. The things they mean can change. Those ones, in a less educated and accepting time, did. The ones we have now have not. Your attempt to dismiss that is genuinely hateful.

          • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            The push to get people to stop saying it Streisand Effected the word into a slur. There’s no reason it shouldn’t have just gone the way of “moron,” except people turning it into a bigger problem than it ever had any right being.

            The entirety of your final paragraph reads like a guilt by association fallacy.

            • Glide@lemmy.ca
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              1 month ago

              The push to get people to stop saying it Streisand Effected the word into a slur. There’s no reason it shouldn’t have just gone the way of "moron,

              Sure. But it didn’t. And now it is a slur. And no matter how much you’d like to defend your version of the word, that isn’t what it means. Sitting in your own bubble and insisting on your own version of language history doesn’t change the meaning of the word to the evolving world.

  • rtxn@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Tell that to anyone in the aviation industry and you’ll get a chuckle and a couple of "bless your heart"s.

      • rtxn@lemmy.world
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        Try telling that to a text filter or a moderator on a power trip. They won’t give a rat’s ass about “to retard” meaning “to reduce or hold back.” Even the linked article fails to make the semantic distinction when it calls for the elimination of the word.

        If this comment disappears, it will have proven my point.

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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          1 month ago

          it’s giving 6th grade locker room 😂😂😂

          “dude look i found a way to say it and dude it’s allowed because it’s about airplanes

          • rtxn@lemmy.world
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            And a bitch is a female dog, I know. There’s a factor of intention, a.k.a mens rea, a.k.a guilty mind that separates right from wrong based on why a person does something. It’s this sort of inconvenient nuance that dealing with absolutes doesn’t allow.

            • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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              1 month ago

              and there’s a matter of intention to me blocking you, too. literally no one disagrees with you, not even me. i am not calling for an “absolute” anything

              your sophomorisms are literally just being posted to give you an excuse to type le edgy words. and worst crime of all you’re not doing it even in a funny or thoughtful way, you are just being mean about it. take care and i hope to me is the most unkind you will be to anyone all day.

            • atomicorange@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Would you use the term “bitch” when talking about dogs? Or just say female dog to avoid being misunderstood? It used to be used that way, but now you’re going to sound like an asshole if you use it.

              Once people start using a technical term as a slur, it gets tainted by that additional meaning. You can’t forcefully separate the technical term from the slur. If you don’t want people to think you’re throwing around slurs, you need to find a new word to use.

              Don’t blame the people hurt by the slurs, blame the assholes who misused the word so often that they fucked up its meaning.

        • doona@aussie.zone
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          1 month ago

          The fact that this lame strawman argument has received so many upvotes is baffling. Who gives a fuck what the random moderator that you invented does?

        • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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          Yup. I was perma banned from /r/politics over on Reddit years ago for using this word in a way that had nothing to do with people.

          It was used in a literal manner, with the definition of how I used it meaning “to delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.”

          I tried to appeal, and I was labeled “ableist”. It was the dumbest shit I’ve ever experienced on Reddit prior to the piggy ruining the platform.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          Je suis en retard dans la discussion, mais tu as raison, les ordinateurs ne tiennent pas compte du contexte.

            • can@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              I’m removed to the discussion, but you’re right, computers don’t take context into account.

              • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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                1 month ago

                ur

                
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  • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    It was offensive even way before that. I remember us not serving a customer at the fast food place where I worked because he used it around my co-worker whose brother had Downs Syndrome.

    I’ve never really associated with people who use that word.

    Lemmy seems to be pretty good about not using it, though. Reddit, on the other hand…

    Edit: After reading this thread, I take it back. There are some straight up disgusting people in this community who really, really want to use the r-slur.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      it absolutely was offensive way before that. from my understanding 2009 was the year there was a unified push to change things across the language though :)

      also wow reddit was worse? i won’t lie i never saw it there in the past decade but perhaps i was browsing more wholesome subs than some

      but yeah on lemmy it’s not an exaggeration to say i come across it (used as a slur, not in an aviation sense, children 🙄) almost hourly. in another thread i am getting dogpiled with downvotes for asking politely not to use it in a derogatory way.

      • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        Every time I’ve reported it on lemmy, I’ve seen it removed by mods, but I guess there are a lot of communities here I just don’t visit.

        Reddit had a very popular sub with the r-slur in its name, and I saw it a lot on CTH (don’t ask me why I ever visited that sub – I ask myself, and I have no answer lol).

        And yeah, Rosa’s Law was 2010, but even dating back to the 70s people were abandoning its use. I recall my brother having to write an essay about people with disabilities when he used it in school in the 90s (not that I approve of using writing as a punishment).

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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          it does get left up by certain mods here 😭 part of the reason for posting this

          in my individual non authoritative opinion OKBR gets grandfathered the pass but only because it’s used in a purely non offensive context nope it’s offensive, you are right. i think it gets grandfathered in because it has important memetic/cultural meaning. but it’s still obviously highly offensive and so should be treated with delicacy and respect.

          hereabouts though i’ll see like, a thread argument about cross stitching and boom, r-slur used as a derogatory. like come on kids this isn’t kindergarten lmao.

          • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            in my individual non authoritative opinion OKBR gets grandfathered the pass but only because it’s used in a purely non offensive context

            Hard disagree here. It’s the very definition of it being used offensively.

    • Malgas@beehaw.org
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      1 month ago

      Yeah, my mom used to work for an organization called ARC, which pointedly hasn’t been an acronym since the early '90s.

      • idiomaddict@feddit.de
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        And NAACP is still around, even with a name that was offensive 40 years ago, because a) it’s clearly not intended to offend; and b) the name recognition is incredibly helpful: I hear NAACP, I think W.E.B. DuBois and Thurgood Marshall.

    • Anvil Lavigne@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      It communicates “you aren’t disabled, you have no excuse for acting like it, start choosing to use the fully functional brain you have”.

      look, if this doesn’t make you see how it’s a shitty thing to say, i don’t think anyone else can help you understand.

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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        1 month ago

        i appreciate how they admitted it out loud: “but how can i harrass people and call them unintelligent if the r-slur is unacceptable?”

        what about dont call people unintelligent. hm?

        • ealoe@ani.social
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          What is wrong with calling people unintelligent when they are doing unintelligent things that are directly causing me problems (for example, people on their phones blowing through red lights?) If someone tries to change lanes into me and I say “are you blind? You almost hit me!” is that similarly bad?

              • Maven (famous)@lemmy.zip
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                The main issue that seems to be the disconnect is simply that you are using the word as an insult.

                Calling someone unintelligent is fine (I feel at least) but specifically using words that are associated with disabled people as an insult towards abled people is blatantly putting one group on top of the other.

                The insult in that case cuts both ways. The person you are directly talking to is insulted because they are acting like a “lower group” and you’re also insulting the entire group by saying they are inherently lesser.

                You can not use a group of people as an insult without inherently viewing that group as insult worthy.

                • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  This really focuses on the darkest possible aspects of people. I think I finally get why I’m not offended by the same things folks like you are.

                  I hear someone use a word like this, and I think “they are using an obvious example they saw, and applying it here in a deliberately facetious manner”. You hear the same word, and you think “that person is deliberately denegrating an entire group of people.”

                  You’re not going to like my saying so, but neither approach is always right or wrong here. There are people that absolutely are doing what you think they are. What your stance doesn’t seem to accept, however, is that others are not.

                  You can live your life any way you wish, but I think people who think this way may want to take a step back, and maybe put their swords down. White Knights don’t always do well in a grey world.

              • exothermic@lemmy.world
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                By comparing people to these slurs, you enforce societal norms that indicate that the said group has less value in society.

                Since humans are social creatures by nature, you are essentially dehumanizing an entire class/group of people because you can’t come up with something more clever to say.

                To err is human, we all make mistakes, intelligence/sight/etc. has nothing to do with it.

              • criitz@reddthat.com
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                I don’t agree with OP that you should never be allowed to call someone names… But I do think the r word is potentially hurtful to actually mentally disabled people, so I wouldn’t use it for that reason.

                In general its better to use words that represent choices people make and not unchangable aspects. I wouldn’t use terms “black”, “retarded”, or “gay” as insults, for example. Someone below suggested “foolish” as a good example since it’s not an inherent trait but a behavior.

                • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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                  i don’t think you shouldn’t ever be allowed to call someone names, not sure where you got that lol. for the record i 100% agree with your comment :)

                  sorry if i come across any other way i just personally find it important to sass people who vehemently defend “muh rights” to use established slurs

                • ealoe@ani.social
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                  Foolish seems like a useful word, probably could be substituted and keep the intended meaning intact.

              • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 month ago

                Your submission in “lemmy user(ule)s: “this sign won’t stop me because i can’t read”” was removed for Using disability as an insult is not ok, end of story.

            • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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              I’ve been called dyslexic before as a slur a few times. I laughed every time and explained that I am dyslexic.

              Zero times have I ever, EVER cared that someone used this word like this. Why? Because they are human beings that saw symptoms and thought it was funny.

              Is dyslexia funny? Yeah, sometimes. In the same way, there are some hilarious characters that are blind. Our differences don’t have to be something we’re constantly defensive about. Humor is a very human reaction to coming to terms with such things.

              Some people just need to take a step back and realize it’s okay to inject these things into humor, IF you do it tactfully, and with a measure of compassion.

              • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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                i’m glad you can find humor in it but it’s also important that you shouldn’t tell others when to not feel offended

                which you are doing with the phrase “some people need to take a step back.” that’s a really unkind thing to say.

                (edited for clarity because i misspoke 🙂)

                • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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                  I could not agree more! I hope you re-read what you just wrote.

                  Edit: Wow… that was a really dishonest edit you just made. You literally edited your comment so it looks like I’m conceding my position, and you didn’t even put “Edit” in there. I think we’re done here… if you’re doing things like this, then nobody on this platform should be conversing with you seriously.

    • Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Using a slur to insult someone, regardless of if they are a member of that group, shows that you view it as an inherently negative trait, and that people should be ashamed of being a part of, or associated with, the group.

    • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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      nobody is going to arrest you for using the word, and many people will celebrate you using it. The problem is those people are mostly assholes. The word you should be thinking about is “audience”.

    • industrialdeerfluff@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Look I usually only lurk because im too anxious but I have to say something.

      Your logic is the exact logic my neo nazi family use. (not an exaggeration, I grew up around the klan)

      “If they act like an N word, why cant I call them an N word, its not like im racist, i call stupid/criminal/bad whites N words too.”

      So i think anyone who uses this logic to justify a slurs usage should take a moment for self reflection.

      (This is coming from someone who is queer and will use queer slurs only in certain company, in private, where everyone involved is aware and into it. (and even then I get uncomfy, especially when im in a new group and I don’t know people and they start throwing words around.))

      (Also to add I was one of those “slow” kids who has alot of history with the cruel things my family and others called me.

    • juliebean@lemm.ee
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      words do area-of-effect damage, friend.

      if you use the r-slur around me, even if its not directed at me, it hurts, and it makes me feel less safe with you, because of the way that word has been used to specifically target me for hatred based on my neurotype. plus there’s the fact that you acknowledge it to be a mean word for disabled people, and if you’re using it as a weapon against non-disabled people, you’re really saying ‘haha, you’re like those disabled people, and that’s terrible.’ i hope you can see how this probably doesn’t feel so good to a lot of us?

    • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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      I agree completely with this. This campaign to make this word just as bad as the “n word” is absolutely ridiculous. I’ve brought this up with a lot of people, and I’ve yet to meet someone in real life who genuinely thinks this word should be censored in this manner.

      Edit: This needs more context… please refer to my expansive explanation here: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/12210243

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      what annoys me is that no one cared about this until Sarah Palin made a big deal out of someone calling her that and she pretended to get offended for her baby with down syndrome as if it was targeted on them.

      but I’m also ok with never saying it again. not a big loss who cares. at least we got a legendary Linus clip out of it.

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          1 month ago

          that’s not what we’re talking about. as the original commenter said, using the r word to refer to any mentally challenged person was already a no-no. that law changed official use of the word, not the r word itself used as an insult.

          • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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            1 month ago

            law reflects society. just providing a timeline for things, the word as an insult was a problem starting well into the 90s so it’s absolutely absurd to blame it on sarah palin in 2013.

    • BaskinRobbins@sh.itjust.works
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      25 days ago

      This is my take on it. Moron evolved to be a more general term associated with anyone acting foolish. It evolved to the point that nobody really associates it as a word targeted directly at intellectualy disabled folks. The r-word was always more commonly understood as “the word you would say to a disabled person if you wanted to hurt them the most”. Because of this people who use it weren’t/aren’t given the benefit of the doubt that they’re just being hyperbolic and not actually a bigot directly to disabled people. Why did one evolve to be more hurtful than the other? I’m not sure. There’s probably a parallel universe out there where the reverse scenario exists.

      Edit: nvm, disregard. just realized this post is 10d old and people already articulated what I intended much better than me.

  • sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    How am I supposed to just stop using this word?? How else is the plane supposed to tell me to put thrust at idle during landing? This is ridiculous.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      1 month ago

      no hate to you but i do hate that this is one of the default responses the internet has chosen when discussing this language (twice now in this thread)

      i guess it’s like a growing pains thing, but it strikes me as very middle schooler, kind of like bringing up that one word that means unwilling to share with others.

      one is a noun/adjective, the other is a verb. entirely different words that simply have the same Latin root. one is used in a professional context in an industry nearly none of us are familiar with, the other i come across as a derogatory on this site pretty much hourly. please let’s grow up a bit about this.

      (again no hate to you specifically commenter, it was a funny joke and i just want to call out the broader trend)

      • sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        It probably gets annoying as a bystander, but I don’t have a lot of opportunities to bring aviation into the rest of my life. Especially in a way that’s mildly funny.

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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          1 month ago

          honestly happy for you lol i think both of our emotional investments are valid

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        This is a real convo I had with middle schoolers when I did a stint as a teacher.

        “But teacher why I can’t I say SHITAKE? it’s a mushroom. And James is acting like a little SHITAKE head.”

        • doona@aussie.zone
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          1 month ago

          This is rich coming from the crowd who throws a tantrum every time someone requests they stop saying a word

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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          1 month ago

          You know what else I’m upset about? There’s this insidious figure who has caused unimaginable grief and pain, hiding behind a facade of normalcy. He’s responsible for countless horrors, using his cunning and deceit to further his dark ambitions. His actions have shattered lives and spread fear like wildfire. Yeah, I’m talking about William Afton. If there’s one person who truly deserves all the anger and outrage, it’s definitely him.

          • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            It’s been so long, since last I’ve seen my son, lost to this monster, to the man behind the slaughter

    • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      Just don’t use it to refer to people and you’re golden. There are many slurs that are also legitimate scientific terms, like how fag(g)ot is a bundle of sticks, or how in physics you have the Advanced and the Retarded Green’s functions.